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could this happen..

Bruno

Dish Network Retailer
Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Messages
4,284
I have a friend that got Dish from a another retailer that is a friend of mine. I was talking to them today and they are getting charged for PPV (porn) and there system has never been plugged into a phone. There programing packages keep changing ..they will call in and change it back and then it will change again.

Could it be that Dish has got someones else R00 and S00 numbers on there account? Or any other ideas on what is going on here..Thanks Bruno
 

Jamber

Dish Network Retailer
Joined
Dec 23, 1998
Messages
6,986
Simple, get access to their account with a three way conversation and get the times and date and notes concerning the call-in PPV purchases. Second have them put a password on their account and their reciever. I know a situation where a family would go away for weekends and the neighbor would come over and watch porn. Usually it's the husband, in the middle of the night and the wife is too mortified to admit it's him!


This space for rent.
 

Beegfoot

Dish Network Retailer
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
835
Bruno, it can and does happen. I got a bill for 195. in porn from dish. I called in, reported to the csr that I wasn't calling as just a customer, but as a retailer. There was a serious problem because I didn't order that junk.

I was told, tough, pay the bill. By morning, I'd cooled off, and called in to cancel my service. At that time they offered to wipe the slate clean, but my Irish/ Texan attitude was in charge.

I switched to dtv, and have had no trouble at all.

I've had several customers call in with the same problem, and in discussing it with csr's, the one thing they argue with and use as proof is if the customer has ever subscribed to adult channels. What a system!

With my bill, they offered no proof, nothing but a bill. ( Incidentally, I paid the bill rather than potentially hurt my dealership.)
 

claude greiner

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 1998
Messages
25,187
I'll see it when I believe it, everytime a customer has come to me with this problem, there has always been some sort of reasonable explanation such as the kids or neighbor ordering it!
 

jscALLSTAR

Dish Network Retailer
Joined
Jun 28, 2000
Messages
5,002
I'm sorry Claude, I believe it happens.

I had a customer that had over $100 worth of adult programming. The CSR told her it was all ordered during normal biz hours. She works and her kids are at school.

DISH can keep on doing this and I'll keep on switching the customer to Pegasus or DTV.

Jeff
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y2k

Former Dish Network Sufferer
Joined
Jan 14, 1999
Messages
59,967
the issue that will not die

ok, outside of 'remote control' ppv with connected phone line, as i understand it, there are 2 other ordering methods...with one, you dial 800-xxx-'movi' or 'adlt', and order by touch tone command ($1 per selection surcharge), and with the other, you call the regular 333-dish and order from the csr ($5 per selection surcharge)...


now...somewhere there has to be some indication as to which of these 3 possible methods was used for any given ppv purchase...in these instances where the cust maintains that there has been no line connected, then it is of interest to note what the billing says about how the purchases were made...presumably, without a phone line, any given purchase is going to be billed for at least $1 more than face price...really, one should be able to gather right off whether the purchase 'supposedly' was made by instant, interactive (touch tone), or was brokered (csr)...

then follow the trail...if it indicates as instant, the possibility of unauthorized connecting of a line must be considered...if it was interactive, well, as far as i know one has to be REGISTERED to use that, correct, or not?? so how did any such registration come about? or, if the purchases were brokered through csr's, that should as well be readily apparent...

my question would be this- does anyone have documentation of continued ppv billings AFTER all ordering preventatives have been implemented...i don't mean passcodes...i mean fail-safe dial-tone connection prevention (i have suggested ripping the phone jack off the motherboard), and block orders on the account...

e* HAS to be telling the order deniers the ordering method used...i would think you could track the 'cause' readily from there...?
 

Bruno

Dish Network Retailer
Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Messages
4,284
Well the wife said she thought it might have been a kid but she locked the system and it happened again.. and there is no phone even close to hook into the system....the changing of the programing sounds funny to me
 

y2k

Former Dish Network Sufferer
Joined
Jan 14, 1999
Messages
59,967
well, again, the changing of programming is an issue that DiSH presumably has safeguards on...all a customer has to do to secure the account is to have the csc place a 'pin number' on it which has to be given to make changes...now, a persistent con act could possibly get around this with a claim to be the authorized account holder who has forgotten the security number, but then THAT fact would presumably be noted on the account, in the 'notes'...this would be the exact same issue as call-in ppv...it should be readily apparent what's going on, especially if block orders have already been out on in the past...

if you think it 'might have been a kid', it probably was...having no phone jack close at hand is meaningless...i have customers who just reel out a long extension when they want ppv...
 

Beegfoot

Dish Network Retailer
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
835
Before it happened to me, I was skeptical as all of you. One lady was crying in frustration over the problem. I figured it was her husband sneaking the shows.

A second close friend got popped for porn, and she paid it because she knew I would get BC'ed if she canceled her service. She guessed her teenage son did it, even tho he swore he didn't. The second time it happened was after a year's service and the son didn't live there any longer. She dropped dish for DTV. No problems like that have happened to her since the change over.

One showing I was charged for was at 8PM on a weekday. My 5 year old grandson lived with us, so I'm sure we weren't watching porn! It's a problem that was happening in '99, 00. I haven't had a customer mention it in a couple years.

I also checked my receivers for purchases and found none.

I just used pay-per-view for the first time ever this last week. WindTalkers. No porn.
 

Current_Source

Dish Network Retailer
Joined
May 2, 1999
Messages
5,778
With all the body parts flying around the screen in Windtalker you would have been better off watching porn.


Ok everyone. What is the WORD on PPV when no phone line is plugged in?? Retail Services claim it cannot happen. I have several customers who tell me they can order as many movies as they want to (on their DP301's) until the message comes up that says something about smartcard being full and then they replug in their receiver overnight and are good to go again. Don't know why they don't leave them plugged in
but it sure looks like mud on my face when I have told them that they must have the phoneline plugged in to order PPV and a month later they are phoning me back and telling me it ain't so.

Is the DP301 really unable to order PPV without a phoneline???

"Don't Major in Minors"
 

Carlsdad

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2001
Messages
1,374
Every receiver I know of can order PPV with out a phone line. Think about it. DTV nor Echo wants to pay for a 1-800 call for every movie ordered. they what a month or so as to increase the chance when the receiver calls it will be uploading more PPV billing events.

I have a customer who has no phone at a weekend place and yet his receiver was charged over $50 in PPV, expain that. CSR could not and credited his account. Only after he said he would switch to DTV.

Todd Humphrey

www.DBSinstall.com President
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markwho

Dish Network Retailer
Joined
Sep 8, 2002
Messages
459
I buy movies on my 301 without a phone line I can buy about 6 or7 movies then its says card is full then i plug the phone line in and then i make the recevier dial out and then im good to go.
 

claude greiner

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 1998
Messages
25,187
Ok, how about this....

Lets say you have a customer who deactivated one of their recievers and sold it on E-bay. Now this reciever was deactivated but for some reason you can still order PPV on it.

So what happens when the phone like is plugged in and the reciever has not been activated on the new customers account?
 

avexpert32

New member
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
4
Metro,

This happened to a customer of mine, my brother to be exact. He deactivated his 4th receiver when we put in the PVR 508. He sold his receiver to a buddy of his who plugged it up at his deer lease. He had no programming but was able to order pay-per-view. He was able to order about 7 movies plus one of the fights. He called me when the card read full. In spite of my directions, he simply plugged it up to his own phone line. The receiver evidently downloaded and allowed him to start over getting the PPV's. However, my brother's bill was charged for the PPV's. After some serious time on my part with the 'wonderful' CSR's @ E*, we got the charges removed. I wondered how a receiver that was turned off was able to continue purchasing movies on that account, but as usual, none of the 'wonderful' CSR's nor their supervisors were able to answer that question. And my reps at E* have only responded with "Its not possible". But I know different.... My advice in our personalized "Welcome Package" to each customer is to review their bill each month. Although I try to sign each of my customer's up for CC AUTO, I still request that they review their bills each month for errors. We have on average about 10 customers each month who end up having to fax us their bill so we can reconcile the mistake with E*. Unfortunately, Charlie and his group are not worried about these continued problems as long as the bills continue to get paid.
 

y2k

Former Dish Network Sufferer
Joined
Jan 14, 1999
Messages
59,967
well, you are right about charlie not being 'worried'...what WOULD 'worry' him would be if the system was too overprotective against improper ppv use and billing...they need that important ppv revenue to survive as a company...

the one fundamental involved is that even if you put ppv blocks on your account, there is NOTHING that prevents a receiver from 'remote control' ppv ordering, as long as there is no passcode in the way...well, i had at LEAST thought you had to have the receiver connected to a line to order with remote...at least they SAID that the receivers now have to verify a dial tone...and as mentioned, i have a few custs who string a line out to the receiver to order...now, according to e*, that's discouraged, because the line will not then be in place later on for the download...but then, what's the difference- if the receiver eventually says it's full, then the line HAS to be connected anyway...DiSH saying a line must 'always' be connected is nothing about technical need and all about revenue...
 

stereohificenter

Dish Network Retailer
Joined
Apr 15, 2001
Messages
2,701
I believe that in the majority of cases these charges are legit: someone ordered the PPV surreptitiously & won't own up to it (in-law, neighbor kid, baby-sitter's boyfriend, etc.)

But there have been a few times where it was physically impossible & there was no phone land-line to upload the card.

So how could it happen?

HACKERS!

Some of these jerks have emulated cards hooked up to computers so they can "pose" as legit subs & order whatever they want.

E* & D* obviously know this but they can't admit it because it would open a floodgate of people ordering PPVs & claiming they didn't (just like a few people do now.)

So they don't have much option except to "stonewall" when someone is ripped off. After all, how can a CSR know if a phone line is available or whether the rcvr is hooked up or not?

But it should be easy to tell if the order came by remote control (SC), 888# or website. In fact, I believe there is a system in place wherein the cust can "lock" the acct & only open it with a password by live phone call.



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